A Chinese club of Mazda owners were driving down the road….
Sounds like the beginning of a bad joke. But indeed, headlines in communist China are showing outcry towards a Hummer who aggressively broke up a convoy of 50 Mazdas that were out for a weekend trip to the sea. It may seem massively petty to some Americans but:
They’re known as the vehicle of choice of newly minted robber barons — especially coal mine bosses, who are not widely known for their discreet spending habits or environmental consciousness.
Would I be going out on a limb by calling American Hummer owners “robber barons” as well?
So this “act” is actually being viewed as an example of the growing income inequality in China. The media focused on it as an example of “class hatred and car envy”.
When Americans get pissed off that Hummers:
…average about 15 mpg (US) (16 L/100 km) on highways, (10 mpg or 24 L/100 km on the street), has a curb weight of over 6000 pounds (2722 kg), and has relatively high maintenance costs.
…we skip the sociological discussion and go straight to the “Hanma heart”. The pic below looks like a scene from Iraq. Instead, it’s the handy work of the Earth Liberation Front in California. (Insert ELF anthem here.)
Even a simple “one finger salute” seems to have more effect on the virus that is Hummer ownership.
Beware Chinese Hanma owners. I’m sending out an express mailed birdie your way.
Popularity: 7% [?]
September 20th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
That picture clearly shows the tolerance that is so indicative of Liberals and the Left-wing. Frankly, if I could afford the vehicle, I would get one just to hack off anyone that would hate me for the purchase, after all, it is none of their business what kind of vehicle I drive. They did not pay for the car I own, I did. They also do not pay for the fuel for the vehicle either, I do.
September 20th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Here is something I found.
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/prius_hummer.htm
The rest of the website is pretty good too…
September 24th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
Unfortunately, it’s everyones business what vehicle you drive. What you drive affects everyone from the carbon monoxide it exhumes to the amount of gas it guzzles.
I’m not trying to get touchy feel-ly with this issue but we really are in this together. Individualist needs must “take a back seat” at some point.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Well then, if you feel that what I drive is your business, then whatever you drive is my business. And for that matter, any of your habits that affect the environment are my business too.
What kind of vehicle do you drive? Whatever it is, it burns gasoline and thereby pollutes the environment. It does not matter what the fuel economy is, because it pollutes and it requires oil to be pumped out of the ground, which is not environmentally friendly. If your car exhausts carbon monoxide, they you are part of the problem as you see it. If I use less gas than you do per year, they you need to take another look at the devastation you are causing the environment, because you are causing more damage than I am and you need to get more environmentally friendly to the level that I am. Better yet, you need to assume that my daughter is writing this and you need to move to the level of polluting that she is. She does not own a car at all, therefore you need to take a backseat to her because she pollutes less than you do.
You do not have a right to determine what vehicle is right for me or anyone else unless you are paying for it with your hard earned salary. That is what “Freedom of Choice” is all about. There is always someone that will use less than you and if you think that should be the required standard, then at some point, no one will have anything.
Of course, you could always use the “Buying Carbon Credits” argument. This allows rich people, such as Al Gore, to buy their way out of the responsibility that they place on everyone else.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Of course what I drive is your business too. And yes, my vehicle also uses fossil fuels. But I made a point to find the most fuel efficient car that was within my budget.
“You do not have a right to determine what vehicle is right for me or anyone else unless you are paying for it with your hard earned salary.”
Sounds suspiciously like The Golden Rule: Whoever has the most gold, rules.
That’s freedom of choice to purchase the most ridiculously wasteful and lumbering vehicle on the civilian market, my friend. I guess my point throughout this whole conversation has been that we need to start taping into our purchasing conscious. Gone are the days of buying grossly wasteful products just because we happen to have the cash. Sure, a lot of schmucks still do it, but we as a nation are slowly changing this mentality one person at a time.
You want to stay in the stone ages? Keep living in the past, be my guest.
November 13th, 2007 at 2:13 am
Hummer: also known as a Bravo Juliet (tryin’ to keep it pg-13 for the kiddies).
Big vehicle (compensating for lesser endowed things) as well as a synonym for the aforementioned act…of course the guy’s going to defend it! Not to mention you have to do a Tim Allen grunt when you’re around it!
I do have to note that I don’t believe Dave understood the point that this was going on in COMMUNIST China. The robber barons aren’t capitalists in the American sense of the word, but more or less offshoots of corrupt political powers given to those that make them money. It was very evident in the USSR that when socialism runs amok due to said corrupt political powers, communism occurs. Ergo, those who aren’t in power are oppressed. These oppressed have every reason to be upset. They slave their hours away to provide for their family (just to get by) while others kiss enough ass of some politician and they’re living the high life. Therefore, the basic tenets behind socialism, that everyone is equal, is tossed into the garbage. Therefore, the citizens who follow the rules get screwed. Dave, you have to think outside the American view of the world and think for yourself. What’s fair, free, and easier to come by is not the same everywhere else in this world. If these citizens can get away with saluting the hummer, good for them. You do remember the last major protest that rocked the Chinese world correct? If not, let me remind you, it was Tianeman Square (not too sure on the spelling). People were killed.
As for the Hummer…aside from it’s environmental impacts, it’s a gas guzzler in the sense that it’s draining on one’s finances. Why would anyone, escpecially now, want to have to fuel that thing more often than a vehicle that gets more miles per gallon? Perhaps with the current prices, you could take out of your daughter’s college fund so as to fuel your dream car. (I realize you don’t own one, I’m trying to make a point though.)
As for me, I drive a Toyota. It has over 140,000 miles and still gets 250 mi/tank. It’s a 15 gallon tank. I’ve had very little repairs performed on it as well. It’s not only economical, but not quite the drain on the natural resources and environment as a Hummer would be.
November 13th, 2007 at 9:16 am
Clap Clap. Bravo.
November 13th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Ms. Missive-
Lol.
You know me, if I have an opinion I give it. (Though, only when I can back it up!) This just happens to be another forum for me to do that!
November 20th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
“Of course what I drive is your business too. And yes, my vehicle also uses fossil fuels. But I made a point to find the most fuel efficient car that was within my budget.”
“You do not have a right to determine what vehicle is right for me or anyone else unless you are paying for it with your hard earned salary.”
“Sounds suspiciously like The Golden Rule: Whoever has the most gold, rules. “
Well said Ms. Missive. It sounds like your car is causing environmental damage too. What are you going to do about it? By your words, it is burning fossil fuels and causing untold damage to the world. Do not blame anyone else when you are part of the problem. You need to stop using fossil fuels altogether or get off of your high horse. If someone wants to purchase and drive a vehicle that gets less mileage than your vehicle, that is their business. If, on the other hand, you want to decide that having a vehicle that you see as a “gas guzzler”, then the same can be said about you from someone that has a vehicle that gets better mileage than you do and they can say it with the same conviction and intensity. Anyone that rides a moped can say this about you. The same can be said for any other part of your lifestyle. The fact is, it is none of my business what you do in your bedroom or what vehicle you drive. I can guarantee you that 99.9% of all Hummer drivers use less fossil fuels and make less of a Carbon footprint in a year than Al Gore does in a month. And if you use gasoline or heating oil, get electricity from any public source other than Nuclear, and are not totally off the electric grid and using wind and/or solar power, then you are, if you purchase food or goods that were shipped by truck, then you are every bit as culpable as anyone that drives a Hummer and you have no right to blame anyone for the environment.
Have you ever supported heavy tax credits for individuals that converted to solar and/or wind power for their homes? This would help more than any minimum mileage standards would ever help save energy and “Global Warming”. If you want things to change, this would be the best way to do so rather than criticizing what others drive especially when you are a gas burner and Greenhouse Gas producer too and it would be our guess that you have no intention of stopping your lifestyle or lowering your standard of living.
November 20th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Hello Dave, my name is Olivia and not Ms. Missive. So you think that nuclear energy is more environmentally friendly….I’m not going to waste my time with that arguement….oh what the hell…Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc…Radiation fallout bad. Of course I’m part of the problem. I don’t have much for options. Where’s the mass production of these environmentally friendlier vehicles at reasonable rates? This isn’t Europe either…yes, mopeds are more environmentally friendly, but you try driving one down the Dan Ryan and making it out alive. My point about the mileage is that I use less gas and get more miles, i.e. not using as much gas for the same trip. I’m doing the best I can while living within my means. We need to use clean burning fuels that don’t destroy any part of our environment. I’m still afraid you missed the point though Dave. The story was about people who don’t live in the American style of excess. We buy what we don’t need, we spend what we don’t have..bigger and better. Most of the world spends the bare minimum they have to in order to feed their families and get by…take a look at the Great Depression, that’s how many people, including many Chinese live. Different worlds, different cultures. Comparing Americans who have free speech to an oppressed person who lives under a communist regime is like comparing apples and zebras! We have the right to say and do damn near anything, these people don’t. So when they manage to get by off very little while someone takes 50,000.00 (of less than legal acquirement)and purchases an vehicle they don’t need when that same amount of money could have fed their entire village for a few years…f*#k yeah they’re gonna be upset, I would too. Flipping the bird may seem inconsequential to you but for them it was a small victory in free speech. Think outside of the American dream and realize not everyone is lucky enough to spend their money on something outlandish and have the right to post their opinions. American’s aren’t the only ones occupying this planet.
November 20th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
“Hello Dave, my name is Olivia and not Ms. Missive.”
That was the name you used when you made the statement “Unfortunately, it’s everyones business what vehicle you drive,” so that was how it seemed you wished to be addressed. No insult was implied.
First of all, I was using the Nuclear Energy as an example of energy production that does not create Greenhouse Gases. It was only meant for anyone that would take note that it is pollution free energy production. The waste product is not pollution in the normal sense because it is not released free into the environment as it is contained.
I noticed you did not address tax credits or tax breaks for converting to solar or wind power. If this were offered to taxpayers and homeowners all over America and restrictions were eased so as to allow the retrofitting of such power sources, energy independence would be a reality.
“yes, mopeds are more environmentally friendly, but you try driving one down the Dan Ryan and making it out alive.”
Safety… that is a good point. In that respect, Hummers are pretty safe. The fact that you admit to be part of the problem does not resolve you fr0m the same responsibility that you place on other people that drive vehicles that get 1 mpg or 20 mpg less than what you drive. What I am saying is that it is none of your business or my business what anyone else drives. The vehicle was chosen because it met certain requirements that the driver/owner felt was needed to fulfill the function that it was purchased for.
“My point about the mileage is that I use less gas and get more miles, i.e. not using as much gas for the same trip. I’m doing the best I can while living within my means. We need to use clean burning fuels that don’t destroy any part of our environment.”
But you use more than someone else and the same argument that you used to defile Hummer owners can be used to defile you with regards to what you drive. I am not giving you that argument because I believe that you should be able to drive whatever you want. By your own argument based on you admission, your actions are destroying the environment, which makes you just as responsible as anyone else that uses fossil fuels to maintain a certain lifestyle.
“The story was about people who don’t live in the American style of excess. We buy what we don’t need, we spend what we don’t have..bigger and better. Most of the world spends the bare minimum they have to in order to feed their families and get by…take a look at the Great Depression, that’s how many people, including many Chinese live.”
Maybe you buy what you do not need, but I do not. I do not spend what I do not have. It sounds like you are trying to make an argument for class envy. You could always wish that successful people should not be able to increase the standard of living for themselves with their own hard work and spend their money as they see fit. Perhaps the people in China that spent the money on a Hummer should have had that money taken away and given to the millions of poor Chinese.
But look what happens when they are successful. You want to deprive them of the free choice to drive what they want to. It is obvious that they can afford it, which means operational and maintenance costs.
But all of this really means nothing. The picture at the top with the lady showing her disapproval of someone else driving a Hummer is really the reason for my comments. It boils down to Class Hatred. How many miles per gallon would a Hummer have to get to make you and the rest of the environmental crowd happy? How many MPG less than what you drive would be acceptable? We notice that you are always placing the blame on SUVs. Why do you not target pickup trucks? They are essentially the same, but owning a SUV shows a level of success that comes from Capitalism and Free Enterprise. This is something that we notice that hacks off your typical radical environmentalist. Just as it has with many that read this blog referencing the new Chinese “Robber Barons”.
“So when they manage to get by off very little while someone takes 50,000.00 (of less than legal acquirement)and purchases an vehicle they don’t need when that same amount of money could have fed their entire village for a few years…”
Maybe the question of who is responsible for feeding an entire village is what should be asked. It is not my responsibility to feed my neighbor or his family. It is my neighbor’s responsibility as long as he has the ability to work and earn for himself.
“Flipping the bird may seem inconsequential to you but for them it was a small victory in free speech. Think outside of the American dream and realize not everyone is lucky enough to spend their money on something outlandish and have the right to post their opinions. American’s aren’t the only ones occupying this planet.”
Take a close look at the picture. It certainly looks like that is an American license plate to me, so please spare me the “thinking outside of the American dream” when you use a picture taken in America as an example.
November 20th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Actually Dave, sorry to break in to some lovely debate here that I have no interest in joining at the moment. But Ms. Missive is one of the authors here at the site. Olivia is one of our readers. Just to clear that up so everyone knows who everyone else is addressing.
I’ll now return you to your regularly scheduled comments.
November 20th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Dave-
You would be correct in saying that nuclear power is undamaging to the ozone, however, the ozone isn’t the only environmental concern when it comes to energy sources. Nuclear energy is only contained in drums, but where to put those drums…radiation leaking into the air, etc. True, there is radiation around us normally that occurs naturally…this is in tolerable amounts though. The following explains the current and possible environmental damage from nuclear energy, regardless of which part of the environment it attacks.
Nuclear Power Plants
Pollutant and it’s
Environmental Effects:
-Radioactive Waste (liquid or solid); Difficult to dispose of.
-Radiation Leaks (air); Radiation poisoning and increased risk of cancer.
-Heat Emissions (water); Causes growth of algae and kills marine life.
The fission nuclear power plants that are already in use have produced thousands of tons of radioactive waste that are sitting in drums waiting for disposal. This waste will be toxic for thousands of years and where to put it has become a gigantic technical and political problem. No one wants this waste anywhere near their own communities, and the technology of safely storing it is unproved and still under development.
While radiation leaks are rare, there have been some small leaks and even a few larger ones. Small leaks allow radioactive gases to get into the atmosphere, which if breathed, could help cause cancer. One very large leak in the Soviet Union allowed radioactive material to contaminate a considerable area, which is still unusable today.
If you drive by a nuclear power plant, you might see the huge cooling towers that are required to cool the hot reactor. The water from these cooling towers contains excess heat energy and is released into the local rivers or lakes. The warmer temperatures that are created allow organisms that would not normally thrive to grow and kill off some of the previous inhabitants.
This was taken from http://www.fi.edu/guide/hughes/energypollution.html
I do believe their should be tax breaks for anyone using any type of energy that is environmentally friendly as well as grants for companies to research and build eco-friendly products that run on clean fuel.
I never at any point absolved my self from the responsibility of being a part of the problem. I am not an engineer, scientist, or random genius, therefore I am in no position to create these eco-friendly vehicles nor am I intelligent enough in chemistry to discover renewable clean-burning fuels. I do recycle papers (non-colored ink), aluminum, glass, and plastic. I also buy organic when possible and I don’t take unecessary trips in my car. My thermostat is set at 68 degrees in the wintertime. (If it gets a little chilly, I grab a blanket.) My heat is electric and not gas. My airconditioner only ran for about 3 days this past summer at 85 degrees. (I wore a tank and shorts to compensate). Granted this isn’t much on the bigger scale, but it’s like putting away a few dollars a week…It may not seem like much now, but it adds up in the long run. I think it’s fair to say I do take some responsibility in being a part of the problem.
Perhaps the owner needed a heavy-duty military-type vehicle. I wouldn’t understand for why, short of high-tailing out of an Iraqi village under attack or living so deep in the mountains no road goes near home, but hey, that wasn’t the point in my arguement. Then again, owning a hummer unless you’re outrunning guerillas is like having FFF fake boobs and not starring in porn. Hummer’s with hemi’s do consume a lot more gas though.
I do live within my means. However, the average American:
-Owns more than one television.
-Has more than one game system.
-Debt
-Anywhere between 10-15 lbs extra on the rest of the world.
In 1985 there were just 13 US billionaires. Now there are more than 1,000. In 2005 the US saw 227,000 new millionaires being created. One survey showed that the wealth of all US millionaires was $30 trillion, more than the GDPs of China, Japan, Brazil, Russia and the EU combined.
The rich have now created their own economy for their needs, at a time when the average worker’s wage rises will merely match inflation and where 36 million people live below the poverty line.
-taken from: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2131974,00.html
In the industrialized world, especially in the United States, we consume precious resources as if abundance were our birthright. And we’re angered by anyone who suggests otherwise.
When President Jimmy Carter was faced with an embargo by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, he responded by ordering conservation. Americans complied, but only grudgingly. And we despised him for insisting that we make do with less.
That’s why no president has dared suggest since then that Americans make sacrifices, that we learn to live with limits. We want to drive Hummers to work and plant rice in the desert. Somehow, the American Dream has become identified with excess: bigger houses, bigger cars, bigger bathrooms.
Meanwhile, fast-developing countries, especially India and China, admire our consumption patterns and copy our habits. They, too, want automobiles, air-conditioning, golf courses and shopping malls.
-Taken from: http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/19/5321/
We began to think like this: If owning one car makes us feel satisfied, then owning two cars will make us even more satisfied. But what we should have discovered by now is that this is just not true. Almost any good thing will quickly reach a point of diminishing returns. Once we get the extra portion that we thought would bring us some fleeting notion of happiness, we almost immediately start craving more of the same and/or something else. You name it — money, cars, TVs, square feet of living space, vacation homes, leisure time, computers, gadgets, nice clothes, quantities and varieties of food — most of us have more of it than ever before. Yet very few of us seem to be as happy as were before we had so much.
-Taken from: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=42493
Just a few examples of excess.
Seeing as we outsource a ton of jobs to China and that the plate on the vehicle is American, you say…I’m guessing it’s a company vehicle. Whether or not driven by Americans or Chinese isn’t the question here. These people know we bring jobs because they will work at slave wages while we flout our excesses in their face, which would not have been available unless their governments paid so little. I’ve seen this in many places on more than one occassion…the American tourist goes to a foreign country expecting everyone else to speak English and if they don’t, they’re stupid. The tourist also waves his money and ability to buy whatever he wants in the faces of those who manage to get by on a lot less. The tourist also believes it’s his/her right to act like an ass to those people. Of course someone is going to give an American the bird once in awhile…they could care less what material posessions you have but they don’t want it rubbed in their faces. Americans have a tendency to believe everyone else on the planet acts the way we do. There are cultural, economical, political, religious….etc. differences between other countries and ours. Let alone, those differences exist here as well. I’m not talking about financial inequality among the classes but something a bit more simple: RUDENESS. How rude is it to throw what you have in the face of someone who doesn’t. It’s like sitting down in front of a homeless man and eating a mulitple-course dinner without sharing. It’s just being polite.
You have a valid point about what you can and do buy….if this was about America…it’s not. These are people in China. They’re led to believe that everyone is equal.
Sorry, I just now realized that the bottom pic is from Ms. Missive to a Hummer. Well, that aside, the article was my main source for arguement, regardless if the gesture was someone giving the bird, protesting, etc. As it is, though that pic may have been taken here in America, the headline and pic of burnt out vehicle is from the People’s Republic of China.
I know I’m repeating myself here, but freedom means you’re free to choose. Socialism main belief is that everyone should be treated equally, meaning without social classes. (I know there’s a lot more to it, but I’ve written quite a bit already.) Communism corrupts the idea of socialism into the American dream for those who are corrupt enough to get it and wield it against those they govern. Through their eyes, hummer=corruption. It may not be right throughout the world, but what else do they have to compare it to? By the way, they don’t have a lot of choices because they’re ran by a communist government!
It’s just the same as a smoker blowing smoke in the face of a non-smoker…it’s just rude.
I’m bored of this arguement now…time to go harrass a politician or two.
November 21st, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Let us move away from the nuclear issue as it was not in the direct subject of the original post.
First of all, all allow me to say that I do not buy the whole “Global Warming” as it is suggested by the Left-wing as fact. Case in point. Al Gore does not really believe that “Global Warming” is really happening as can be seen from his actions.
“Al Gore, the Jim Jones of this new religious cult, preaches doom and gloom from his pettifogger pulpit, all the while living the lifestyle of an energy hog. He actually uses twoce the amount of electricity in one month at his Nashville home than the average household used in an entire year. He has two homes in Tennessee, one in Virginia, at least. He flies all over the world on his Magical Hysteria Tour, sucking down resources and belching out tones of carbon, all to tell us we need to conserve. We’re trying to make ends meet just to afford tgas in our cars while Al gore has a carbon footprint the size of Sasquatch. And on one seems to care.”
– Phil Valentine in The Tennessean
Make no mistake, Al Gore and his friends do not really believe their own argument or they at least believe that they should not have to live within the limitations that they expect others to live.
By you saying that Hummers should not be purchased and have no real use is nothing more than an elitism. You say that SUVs are damaging the environment, yet you are using the very same fuels and you fail to condemn yourself as though you have the right to do so and someone that owned a Hummer does not have that same right. It is paramount to the pot calling the kettle black.
“Seeing as we outsource a ton of jobs to China and that the plate on the vehicle is American, you say…I’m guessing it’s a company vehicle. Whether or not driven by Americans or Chinese isn’t the question here. These people know we bring jobs because they will work at slave wages while we flout our excesses in their face, which would not have been available unless their governments paid so little. I’ve seen this in many places on more than one occassion…the American tourist goes to a foreign country expecting everyone else to speak English and if they don’t, they’re stupid. The tourist also waves his money and ability to buy whatever he wants in the faces of those who manage to get by on a lot less. The tourist also believes it’s his/her right to act like an ass to those people.”
It would be very easy to say that you are living an affluent and excessive lifestyle compared to 95% of the people of the world.
And what do the differences between America and all other countries have to do with my right to own a SUV or whatever I want and why that is your business? What you are doing is sticking your nose into other people’s business ans telling them what they do and do not need. What I am saying is that it is none of your business what I spend my money on or what anyone else spends their money on unless you are providing that money to them. You can try and confuse the issue with talk of trade deficits and employment in China, but that will not work with me.
It sounds like you have a problem with someone spending more than you are able to spend on whatever you like. Unless you believe that you are living a life of excess. And even if you are, you have no business telling anyone else how they can and cannot spend their money. I am sorry if you do not like that others can go on vacations in foreign countries and spend their own money to excess if they feel like it without you believing that it is your business. My neighbor driving a Hummer does not affect me anymore than you driving whatever fossil fuel burning lifestyle excessive vehicle you are driving.
November 21st, 2007 at 8:50 pm
Good lord, people. You’re taking up all my server’s storage space with the comments to this one post!
But really. Here’s my point with as much swiftness as I can muster.
We’re all idiots for continuing to use fossil fuels. This conversation here boils down to arguing that the biggest idiot is the one who is using MORE fossil fuels than the other idiots. The reality is that we’re all guilty… at least by association.
And the harshest thing about all of this is that most of us can’t help using fossil fuels in some way. (Like buying food transported via semi-trucks, Dave.)
But my point is that we can chose to keep our usage to the lowest amount possible when considering financial ability. Someone who can afford a Hummer can just as easily afford a “green” car. If it was affordable for everyone to buy and maintain a car that didn’t function on fossil fuels, don’t you think we all would?
Also, I’d like to add that there is no amount of arguing that will ever convince me that people don’t buy Hummers because of it’s elite status. Practicality my ass. Unless it’s the U.S. government filling an order of hummers to drive the roads of Iraq, there is absolutely no reason a normal civilian should be driving such a monstrosity. The End.
November 21st, 2007 at 9:42 pm
“And the harshest thing about all of this is that most of us can’t help using fossil fuels in some way. (Like buying food transported via semi-trucks, Dave.)”
Don’t even begin to think that you wrote that first. (I mentioned it much earlier in the post, Olivia.)
Whatever the reason that anyone buys a Hummer, it is none of your business. It is what is known as Freedom of Choice. You purchased your vehicle because it filled your needs whatever they are. No one has any business telling you what your requirements are and likewise you have no right to do so to others.
“…there is no amount of arguing that will ever convince me that people don’t buy Hummers because of it’s elite status.”
Why do you think that everyone or anyone is required to convince you of anything.
“But my point is that we can chose to keep our usage to the lowest amount possible when considering financial ability. “
That I agree with. If it is within one’s financial ability to purchase whatever personal transportation they can afford, then they should be able to. And that is all I have said.
We noticed that you did not mention large 4WD 1 ton pickup trucks. They get the same mileage. Actually, the Hummer gets better mileage but lets not confuse your argument with a bunch of relevant facts.
I found an article you might like to see. It compares the Hummer to the Toyota Prius and the ecological footprint of each. I would love to hear your comments on it.
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/prius_hummer.htm
November 21st, 2007 at 10:05 pm
The Toyota Prius is a “green friendly” car. It’s a hybrid. It still uses fossil fuels. These are cars that are designed to “ween” the consumer off totally gas run vehicles. They don’t necessarily get any better gas mileage than a Ford Escort.
I see your point that it still takes fossil fuels to create a green vehicle in the first place. But that’s just the nature of our production beast. It’s the end product (a product that can function fully without gasoline) that is the goal. And it’s a goal that everyone will eventually own. Because eventually, we won’t have anymore oil to dig out of the ground. And then what?
All the hummers and hybrids aren’t worth shit.
But there are other options. Can you find an article that argues your hummer is better for the environment compared to those cars?
November 21st, 2007 at 10:28 pm
We will have oil in the ground for centuries to come. The supply is not ending anytime soon.
Can you find anything that says you are less safe in a Hummer or SUV in a crash than one of those lightweight, cramped electric vehicles? Mileage is not everything. There needs to be some protection around the occupants.
Once electric vehicles are the majority of automobiles in America and around the world (and for the record, I think that they will be in the not to distant future i.e. >100 years), there will be some Liberal that will be complaining about the ozone that is produced by the electric motors and the health hazard it creates. Of course, that will be a bunch of non-sense, but the entire environmental movement is really after power and control, not helping the environment as everyone thinks. Just take a look at Al Gore and his lifestyle. He has no intention of making a single change to live as he expects everyone else to live. He “buys” carbon credits so he does not have to abide by the limitations he wants to set upon the rest of the population. He and his rich two faced left-wing bunch would rather buy their way out of what they consider their responsibility toward the environment.
November 21st, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Oh yeah, do you even know who Tesla was and what he did?
November 21st, 2007 at 11:21 pm
I apologize for confusing Olivia’s and Ms. Missive’s responses. I hope I did not confuse to many people.
November 22nd, 2007 at 4:26 am
Dave-
For starters, I do know who Tesla is and what he did.
Well, as for being an elitist overpriveleged…let me dissuade you with these facts:
I am a divorced mother of a young child. I get 60 dollars a week in child support. I live in a less than desirable neighborhood where the public school kid’s can’t read at their age level. I work my ass off just to send my kid to private school where she can excell 3 days a week. I then continue to work my ass off so I can pay my tuition (which I only go to school 2 days a week myself), then pay my bills, and in the end still manage to make my kid’s life as comfortable as possible, which mean’s she isn’t hurting for food, clothes, other necessities…
Secondly, re-read the my posts carefully, on more than one occassion I’ve admitted to being a part of the problem as well. I have never denied that.
Thirdly…I could care less what someone in this country drives…you want to be an asshole, that’s your right in this country (not comparing the two, just making a point of the luxury of freedom)…the point was that the article had to do with COMMUNIST CHINA! There is a different cultural standard there.
Again…bored. More things to worry about, like soldiers getting blown up and discarded.
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:27 am
“Well, as for being an elitist overpriveleged…let me dissuade you with these facts:”
I was referring your attitude and the attitude of many. You and Ms Missive seem to dislike those that have the cash to buy what they want.
“That’s freedom of choice to purchase the most ridiculously wasteful and lumbering vehicle on the civilian market, my friend. I guess my point throughout this whole conversation has been that we need to start taping into our purchasing conscious. Gone are the days of buying grossly wasteful products just because we happen to have the cash. Sure, a lot of schmucks still do it, but we as a nation are slowly changing this mentality one person at a time.”
– Ms Missive
My point is that is it none of your business what someone else dries or purchases or the reason that they do so.
“Unfortunately, it’s everyones business what vehicle you drive. “
– Ms Missive
I know Olivia, you did not make this statement. Do you agree with it or not. There is no middle ground here. If it is, they I want you to stop driving and “destroying” the environment. Would it be wrong to take the attitude that you should stop driving altogether? Of course not even though by your reasoning it would help the environment.
And you should not be jealous of those that have more and can afford an excessive lifestyle compared to your own. Because that is what it is… a relative concept. Olivia, using that lifestyle you just presented to me, you live better and are richer than 95% on Earth. This places you in the top 5%. Do you want the other 95% to refer to you as living “Excessive” lifestyle, because to them, you are. You have more than you need. You eat 3 meals a day. You have a roof over your head. You buy what you want when you want it sometimes. And you have the opportunity to send your kids to college. If you are going to judge other people in a negative light for having more than you, there are billions of others that are right in this assessment of you.
November 22nd, 2007 at 6:15 pm
I don’t know how many times I have to say this before you read it…
This takes place in COMMUNIST CHINA. The ideology of socialism is that everyone is equal. Meaning, they all have the same as everyone else, whether everyone is rich or poor. To be a citizen of that country and how you’re government would sell you out due to the corruption of said socialism by those in charge is the feeling I’m trying to get across…
The Chinese have every reason to be pissed. That’s my arguement. If you want to tell them to fuck off, then go buy a hummer and drive around Beijing and see how well your accepted.
I could care less what everyone else has. I’m happy and thankful for what I do have.
November 22nd, 2007 at 8:56 pm
One word:
meh.